I am known for exposing the “elephant in the living room.” Those things everybody knows but nobody is talking about. Not every mother-daughter relationship reads like a Hallmark card, and our culture makes that a shameful secret to bear.
Dr. Christiane Northrup suggested that the bonding hormones that flood a mother’s blood stream at childbirth stay with women for about 28 years.
It is no accident, then, that the first round of truly adult separation (not teenage rebellion) begins to rear its head somewhere around 30 for women and the menopause years for their mothers. For the first time, the veil begins to lift and we see each other for the women we have become.
Some estimate that 96% of American Families are dysfunctional in some way – making it the norm. But “normal” is not necessarily healthy, and it certainly falls short of the abundant life we’ve been promised.
Women are held responsible for the relational health of the world – at work, at home, family health and wellbeing, the sexuality, the promiscuity, the cause, the cure and the results. When a true perpetrator arises in a family, the mother protects ala Mama Bear. If she doesn’t die trying, she can later become a target.
Mom is apparently the one who knew (or should have known) what was happening at every moment of every day to their children – physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. After all, moms have eyes in the backs of their heads and are equipped with the unusual ability to read minds, right?
See also: Letting Go And The Art Of Parenting Adult Children
M. Scott Peck wrote, “Mental health is an ongoing process of dedication to reality at all costs.” The pinch point for grandmothers is that any loss of relationship with our adult children means strained relations – if not severed ties – with the grandchildren who now light up our lives.
I am a mother of three and grandmother to 11. I stayed with their father for more than 20 years believing that somehow I could make him feel loved enough to change.
Over time, each of my children has drawn close to me for healing, and pulled away for the same reason. I am, after all, the one they hold responsible for the shifting emotional sand in their psyche.
Ten years ago, I remarried a man whose children were also grown. We imagined that would alleviate the adjustments of step-families. In some ways, not having children in the home made it easier to forge our identity as a married couple.
Although we shared values, we didn’t share history with each others’ children. We each brought our traditions and expectations to bear. When I recently chose to divorce this man who had played “grandpa” to my children’s children, old wounds surfaced.
Had I known that to leave him meant I would lose my only local family, I probably would have stayed for the sake of the grandchildren. It’s that old programming baby boomer women still struggle with.
If something isn’t working, you try harder. Marital problems? Pray more, love more, give more, be patient, and wait it out. Suck it up, stuff it down, be quiet and don’t make waves.
I have identified four distinct stages in the journey to wholeness.
Our lives become (or continue to be) a carefully constructed illusion based on how it looks, what people will think, and what we imagine will get us the love and security we so desperately crave.
This is why grandmothers continue to “make peace at all costs” rather than saying what they see, need and want. Some have called it the disease to please.
Pretending that everything is okay when in our hearts we know that is not true can only go so far. We go along to get along. We smile in public and cry in private. We live a lie, and it eats at our souls every day.
Women think if we ignore it, maybe it will go away or time will heal all wounds. The thing is, time doesn’t heal buried pain. It has to be unearthed and acknowledged before it will pass away. Pain that gets buried alive poisons the rest of our lives.
Divorce is a harsh word when applied to our mother-child relationships, isn’t it? But it happens whether we acknowledge it or not. Divorce occurs when all communication has broken down and attempts at reconciliation fail.
It is the most painful dark night of the soul. With divorce comes all the drama of severed relationships, he-said she-said finger pointing, and drama triangles where people talk about each other, but never directly to one another so healing could occur. We might as well lawyer up and some do. It’s called Grandparent Rights.
See also: The Detachment Wall: How To Let Go Of Your Adult Children
Last is the place of acceptance. There is no anger, no angst, no more bargaining. It is where we accept what life is handing out right now and the fighting is done.
You have decided what you do and do not want, what you will and will not stand for, and are making decisions to move forward with or without the resolution you may have hoped for. You are free to stay or go because you have become dedicated to reality at all costs.
Read HOW TO DEAL WITH HAVING AN ESTRANGED ADULT CHILD.
Do I wish I had capacity back then to do some things differently? Definitely. Do I regret what I allowed my children to endure because of the choices I made? Mm-hmm.
Is there anything I can do now to go back and change it? Not a damn thing. Does it serve anyone for me to live in remorse and regret? Nope. Not now, not ever. Never.
Nobody had a perfect childhood – at least nobody in my generational gene pool. We all did the best we could with what we had to work with at the time. That is as true today as it was generations ago.
The biggest healer for women in daughter divorces is to break the shame by breaking the silence. Let’s talk about what’s real and how to help live dreams without drama in our later years.
Read WHEN PEOPLE ASK ABOUT MY ESTRANGED CHILDREN… WHAT CAN I SAY?
Also read 60 AND ESTRANGED FROM AN ADULT CHILD? HOW NOT TO DEAL WITH IT.
This article has generated several important conversations. Many mothers/grandmothers are going through similar realities each with their unique set of situations. Talking and being vulnerable with one another is part of the healing process – as we can tell by reading your chats. Knowing that you are not alone helps in accepting the outcome of your distanced relationship with your adult children.
Many have mentioned that therapy has helped them through this difficult time in their lives. Online therapy sessions are now readily available and affordable. Websites like Better Help, Talk Space, and Online Therapy have therapists and mental health professionals available to listen and guide you.
Where do you find yourself in the process of letting your adult children go? Where are you on the journey to finding yourself in your sixties? Please share your thoughts below!
Tags Adult Children
This article resonates for me – from both the personal perspective and the social implications mentioned. Society holds devalued attitudes about women that are deeply embedded into our collective unconsciousness. I call it the double “F’d” Oreo – being sandwiched between working out crap with my mother while also working out crap with my kids and feeling bad about myself in both situations.
I love my family with every fiber of my being. My kids were the axis of my universe – for 25 years. I’m grateful they’re in my life – even if their behavior and choices make me feel like a pathetic looser or a horrible mother; at least some of the time. They behave as if they’d been raised by thugs or idiots or wolves. It’s as if they go out of their way to fail bc they don’t want to give us the satisfaction of enjoying their success. Meanwhile, my dad was never satisfied by anything I ever did and my mom was always jealous of any opportunity I found.
Honestly, I think my own kids would have fared better had someone else been their mom. I think parenting/motherhood is oversold, over-glamorized and simply not the best choice for everyone. I don’t even know if I made a choice about becoming a parent. I do know I had a belief I’d be less than a whole woman if I didn’t get married and have kids.
At 60, I just don’t know if any of it was ever the right choice for me or if I ended up doing more harm than good – despite every effort to parent them better than I had been parented. One child confronted me as the source of their dysfunction, and yet leans on me as though I’m their only friend. The other child pretends to tolerate me, ignores me – remains cut off and removed from me, most of the time.
I was never a perfect parent, suffered with depression & anxiety related to PTSD. And I also knew enough to be as transparent as possible with them, admitted I didn’t always do things right – gave them tools and resources to get help, if they needed it. I defined my disassociations as my problem – tried to lift them up and help them identify their own needs even when I couldn’t meet my own. Their failure to thrive in adulthood, their refusal to utilize their talents to help them fully function in the world feels like a slap in the face. I’m stuck feeling angry at myself, disappointed by God and untrusting of the universe I find myself living in.
I’m exhausted being less than what others expect. I wish I had the courage to run away – to disappear without another word, and start over – make a new life as though everything in the previous 59 years never happened.
I encourage you to not run away but plan to move somewhere new. You did all you could. Take care of yourself, feel your feelings, say the serenity prayer as much as possible and live your life now.
I did that, changed my name too in case they want to spy on me online. I dont want them to know where I live or if I’m alive or dead. I’m so done. It feels freeing.
I feel like running away most days. I am tired of feeling broken, hurt, used, disappointed. I wish I could change everything about the past 32 years. If I only knew what I know now.
I need help bad . Im 63 in two days im am being bullied by my 30 yr old son scared of him bad . Hiw xan i escape
Call adult protective services.
You deserve a new start. Don’t allow your son to intimate you. Have camera’s installed. Change locks on your doors. He is manipulating you. Set strong boundaries. If you need to move to a different state do it! Block his number on your phone. Get support to help you stay strong. Once you divorce him out of your life you will feel the cloud lift.
You have done your job as a parent. Some men never grow up. If we enable our adult children and do for them what they can do for themselves- we dont give them the chance to mature.
Personally I’m tired of feeling guilty that I need to keep rescuing my 32 year old son. I’m DONE- Detach with love.
You deserve to smile. Keep your chin up. Be strong. You have support!
My best friend just had to evict their adult son who was abusing her and husband. The police had resources for elder abuse and social services sometimes does too. So sorry you are going through this.
Get him out by involuntary commitment for being a danger to others or like the other women said adult protective services. Or you get help to escape when he’s gone go with family friends shelter whatever you have to do. You deserve peace no one deserves to live afraid
I am just about 62 and have 2 adult children. I divoriced their Father whom had been in the military and tried to raise both of the kids on my own. I married at 18 and my daughter was the first born. From the get go, both of my kids felt entitled that they come first. They chased away every man that ever came into my life, and I look back now and know I allowed it! That was my own fault. My daughter ran away when she was 17 and had a son, which I never even knew about until she came back and had no place to go, so I allowed her to move back home and I helped her. I worked full time and paid for all her sons needs while she partied and became verbally abusive. My son thought I owed him everything! He became abusive as well. My daughter hooked up with one man after another until she landed one that stuck! My son got into drugs and at nearly 40, he is still doing drugs and asking me for money. I have helped him over and over. It has to stop! My daughter excludes me from everything and she and her now husband never even told me they got married. Her response was ” It was no big deal!” But she still expects me to send her cash for the holidays and yet, has not came and visited me in over 6 years. Her Father called me about 4 months ago and told me he has been trying to get my phone number from her for over 2 years. But she would not give it to him. We were both upset! He just recently died and she jumped in and took over. She left me out of the planning and she is acting like she was his wife. He left behind several thousand dollars in his bank account and she wants to inherit all he had. But because he did not have a will, it is in the state’s hands. Her brother knows, but she thinks he should get nothing. She just recently started having a relationship with her father, after she found out he got this money. She often would call me and brag about all she has, it just sickens me. She hates her brother and they have a horrible relationship because he is a drug addict! He won’t leave me alone. I told her that I am done. I do not want anything from either one of them and I want to live my life for me now. They both have used and abused me enough, and I need to be free! I have no idea how I am going to stop my son but I have to find a way. He shows up at my place in the middle of the night needing money when I have to get up for work. He tells me its my fault he is on drugs. Of course I know better.I want to divorice both of them and I feel like I should never had children. I am sick of the pain, the torment, the games.I was always there to help them when their dad could have cared less. And I just want to move on and make them live their own lives. And quit paying over and over because they only want what I can give them. I will leave everything I have to charity! I live by myself! My daughters son has no relationship with me, I took care of him for many years. My daughter is a pathological liar, she has been since she was a teenager. People have told me how she has told them that I did all these horrible things that I know I never did. So the truth does not see the light and I just do not care anymore. It is just sick!
Please don’t give up on yourself! They are exactly like me 2 that I have done Everything for but they could care less of the pain they have caused and continue to cause But we made them and I know that once we detach that is the Only way they will respect us and see our worth once we move on! Life happens and if they want a punching bag it won’t be me any longer! We have to make the Mom or parent sacrifice by cutting the cord and letting them learn to swim without us! Absolutely NO Contact for your sanity and if we truly love them ( as I know we all do) we have to let them see how it is without us! We are their crutch and will never learn to walk properly without us! Imagine daily in your mind that they are fine and move on! We made it this far in life and don’t deserve the emotional & physical abuse or embarrassment for all we have gone through for them! Change your number and block Any & All contact!!
You told it right. My child says I won’t avoid the conversation when in reality I am avoiding getting in the ring with her. She wont walk away when little things come up, and they become big things rather quickly. Since she felt the need to tell me all the things she thinks, I am now clear as to why moving forward with her is so difficult. She rewrote history and took the leading role in victim status. That required a good many outright lies coupled with a few extreme exaggerations and topped it all off with conjecture about my motives, which in her mind have me maliciously conspiring against her. After I made my way through her novel to me, I was so sick to my stomach that I literally couldn’t get a handle on myself for the rest of the day.
I don’t know what the future holds, but I do know it doesn’t hold me in a relationship with someone whose thoughts and opinions of me are like hers are.
Yes, it was important for us to get some boundaries in place so letting loose like she did wouldn’t forever compromise our family relationship. I repeatedly asked for that in our conversations. I knew that if I said what I’m thinking and feeling, it would only cause a further rift. So, I kept saying we needed a therapist to help us discuss our feelings and set some ground rules for engagement. She declined and instead wrote such a horrible letter to me that I can’t get past it, and with good sense, know it’s not in my best interest to try anymore. That was toxic in all caps. The way she laid it all out for me in such perfect clarity, I have no question any longer why my efforts to take the rage and meet in a healthy place today, or tomorrow, just can’t and doesn’t happen. She clearly sits around and stews about things making sure she my identity is clear….I’m satan.
No, her childhood wasn’t dreamy. Her mental illness (personality disorder) was quite a challenge. Moving into adulthood hasn’t been a picture perfect process, either. Personality disorders make things challenging, to say the least. To this point, I have asked for her to work with me to heal and make a better relationship going forward, but she likes to secretly hold on to her rewritten version, because being a victim appeals, especially when we are still living with the consequences of our previous choices and actions. We would like to blame somebody.
I couldn’t agree more, it’s a heavy load to bear, add the weight of all the guilt. And mom shoulders and hearts are supposed to be able to lift and hold this. I know for me, it’s physically killing me and I’m not even 50. Stress, anxiety, non-stop grief, hearts are not meant to endure this indescribable pain. Some of us don’t even know why? Im willing to listen but I’m not willing to take all the blame.
I was abused, gaslit like crazy, financially cut off, socially cut off, constantly insulted, threatened, emotionally, physically, mentally destroyed… and yet I still fought for them. “Take all the money, I just want the kids” but no, narcissists take everything.
The fight breaks you, but then the broken you is to blame…the saddest of catch-22’s.
Only wanting to be a better mom than I had. Yet, their truth is that I’m literally the worst. I only know that I never imagined a future where some of my kids hated me, I truly thought we would be so freaking close.
Broken hearts feel too heavy to carry some days.
This too is my story
When will we mom accept that it is perfectly okay to be done with a relationship with an abuser, whether it is an intimate partner or an adult child? The version of you an abusive adult child or intimate partner needs, wants and tries to get out of you is a scared, overwhelmed, unstable, anxious ridden human who will put up with being treated poorly. No one, not a husband, parent, adult child, sibling or friend or greater society for that matter, has the right to physically, emotionally and financially smash and mold you into a tool to meet needs. Letting go of abusive relationships and loving yourself with compassion is an extraordinary way to live. For me it meant zero contact with an abusive daughter and her children, my grandchildren. Once I allowed myself to experience a new way of life, a life that did not include being abused by an adult child, I experienced a better life, a richer life, a more peaceful life. I discovered there was truly a great life to be had beyond motherhood and all that entails. I only discovered this when I stopped comparing myself to what society said I should be and how I should feel. Sometimes enough is enough and that’s a good enough reason to change course. It’s been fifteen years now since I have been around her and I thank my lucky stars I did not stay engaged. because she has not stopped using a fictitious victim status to justify her abusive behavior towards so many who happen to get involved with her. She first used that to get out of trouble as a teen when she got caught at school smoking. Told the school an horrific lie about me and they felt sorry for her (found out two years later from a teacher and ended up easily disproving the lie). In the meantime she, trying to impress a boy who liked to par, continued to use the lie whenever she was called out for skipping school and it worked. The lie was that I was a drug addict doing lines of coke at home on a glass table and abusing her and had multiple drug dealer boyfriends living at the home. It was a shocker to hear as I have never done drugs and had no boyfriends living at the home ever and none that did drugs. I asked the school why they didn’t call child protective services on me because then at least I would of been aware she was lying and not where she was supposed to be and could of intervened myself to disrupt her being able to drink and smoke weed with her ‘bad boy’ boyfriend and his crowd while skipping school. Many adult’s children’s behavior is often out of our control. I know parents whose successful adult children are alcoholics and those parents spend much of their lives suffering with worry over them. I know of awesome parents whose adult children with whom they had loving relationships with killed themselves because of personal suffering they could not share with those same parents for reasons they took to the grave. None of us mothers should carry to our own grave the stigma, humiliation, shame, anger, sadness and grief over an adult child’s negligent behavior, addictions or other issues they have which brings us estrangement because other women need to compare themselves to us in order to feel better about themselves- that simply has to stop and it ends when every woman makes a pledge to not go there and not be the gossip that destroys others to uplift herself. I loved my daughter with my very life and probably always will but I will not be in relationship with her and I am absolutely fine with that and do not apologize for a decision that serves my sanity and helps me be in appreciative and healthy relationships with others.
Wow, ty for sharing. Are we twins? I was feeling like a piece of garbage thinking it was just me. I know your story, I’m loving it too. My daughter is 28 and has verbally and physically attacked me all of her life. It’s been awful. She has called me names, puts me down and plays the victim. I’ve been supporting her and my grandson and she feels entitled. I just can’t do it anymore. It’s abusive, plain and simple. She doesn’t want to work with me to repair the relationship, she wants to vent and blame.
That’s my life your talking about I now just need to know how do I go about divorcing them now please advice
I feel the same way that I want to run away as well I have a older daughter 50 and I see what you going to or what you saying it’s true you want to divorce your daughter and be left alone because they become hurts in your life and they disrespect you and curse you off for no reason long because they want to have their way but it ends here this is a new year and I’m tired really tired
Omg so glad I found this channel i need desperately to divorce my daughter im 60 shes 33 we are well past due im so tired of the disrespect she just moved back in my grandson is 6 she has anger issues and no job
Im so tired and want to move on with my life
My Daughter is 38 and has a two year old. She is Divorcing her wonderful husband so because of the economy has to live with me. We fight and she treats me like dirt most of the time. I haven’t stopped crying in 6 months.
You’re not alone. You do not deserve to be treated this way. Decide what you want to do, for example 1) talk with her, tell her what you expect from her and what you will not accept from her, write it down like a contract, give her a copy. And if she does accept your boundaries life may be better, but if she doesn’t , which is her choice, then she has to find some where else to live.
Not easy at all, but you will feel better when the dust settles.
Just because the economy is hard does not mean you have to go through this.
I’m so sorry Deborah. But I have to ask…why do you put up with it?
I think most of us put up with this because of guilt and because we are the Mom and everything that word means. That’s why I did and do do that…..
sound like me :(
Your not alone, I’m going through this with my middle daughter and her girlfriend, 22 year old son and younger kids 10,13 the kids mom has taught them to lie now my daughter has said she will love me from a distance 💔
I’m so sorry :( it’s hard enough when it’s our child but extra hard when grandkids are involved. We have no say and they don’t want it anyway
I hear ya. You are strong. You will find a way to re make your path, your life.
I, too, am glad I found this channel. I have lived with the anger I hold in my heart for my daughter. I am tired, weary and far too angry to keep going. While there are two grandchildren – about to be three, nothing seems to change with her. She has a baby for every man she dates, but love is not something she knows anything about.
I wish we could all runaway together. Vount me in!
Count me in too.
I am with you. I am 60, three sons. Two of them want to divorce me and basically have done it. They were once loving. I think social media got to them. I am going through the stages of grief. It has been three years of hell. There new wives are not much help. They stand by their man. I have entered the acceptance stage of grief. It has been a lot of crying. I need to get my life back. It is sad that the two of them will not be in it. I love my boys. I can’t help them anymore.
You are not alone and I feel your pain.
After nearly 4 years of estrangement my 31 Yr old daughter and husband have moved back from London. They only live 3 miles from me and have a 2 month old baby. I meet them at a local park a few weeks ago….1st meeting. I hour and I really don’t feel the same about her. After two short text messages without reply I’ve decided I’m done. These people need to realise everything is generational!! I reguard her as clueless. I’m done.
The generation they live in labels us “ Toxic “ for giving them everything they wanted & needed and caring way too much about what we created! They can keep their Internet labels and call on the internet & fake friends for money and true love! I’m Done with being abused, let the internet try to heal their wounds when we die!
Generational. That is what comes between me and my sons. They are in their 30’s. I am dumb because I am 60. They know everything. I can help them anymore.
A two month old baby is a Lota work . Offer to cook a meal or two for them. Offer to baby sit 3 or 4 hours on their days off. Maybe go over and help clean the house to give them a fresh reset. Little things help. Buy a pizza have them over.
Keep the offer out there to help. Good Luck
I feel the same way
I have been thinking of doing this too.
I think it’s sad how we try as women and the majority of the advise I read about adult children being ungrateful or disrespectful to their mom is how the mom needs to bend over backwards and “listen” to their children or assess their issues. How about some children just grow up to be a&@ holes and we should disassociate ourselves until the child can get a grip because their an adult? My daughter is 30 and we used to have a good relationship and now that she has a new husband and has scene how his mother waits on him hand and foot…she doesn’t ask for my opinion or engage in meaningful conversations with me and basically has cold shoulder me but yet as a mom I’m suppose to take it on the cheek and ask “what else can I do for you 30 year old daughter ”
I think your daughter already knows how you feel about her husband and waiting on him hand and foot that’s why she gives you the cold shoulder it because she is embarrassed. Only know that through my experience in marrying someone my mother disapproved of. She was right, but I had to learn the hard way. Please don’t let the cold shoulder get to you. My mother salvaged our relationship by not rescuing me but being available when I needed her and she knew I would need her eventually. Let me add even though our relationship wasn’t warm because of the tension it was respectful. I would never disrespect her even when we argued there wasn’t any verbal abuse either way.
After I had enough and divorced the man she didn’t like for me, our relationship blossomed and so did we!
Like my dear ole Mom used to say ” People don’t use you, you let them”. People ( children included) are radiators or drains.
Same! Mine can live her fake life with the in laws who couldn’t Ever imagine what I put up with raising her so good luck with her new family but all Poop floats to the surface! It may not happen now but Oooo it’s coming and Real mommy won’t be around for the blame and abuse! I’ve changed my number and gotten off of all social media. If they ever mature we need to make them look for us and put as much effort into us as we did for them!
It’s not that you need to bend over backwards to please them. It’s that they need to be able to communicate without you getting defensive. When they bring up an honest time you’ve done them wrong up you need to not be defensive and own up to your mistake. If you don’t feel you’ve made a mistake you still have to listen to what they have to say, it could be just a different point of view on an event.
Refusing to hear or refusing to admit detailed mistakes you’ve made makes the child feel like you don’t truly care about them, that you’re feeling are more important then theirs.
It’s extremely wrong to think that a child should be unwaveringly grateful to you. They did not choose you as a parent. You chose to have the child and what you do for your child is not a “sacrifice”, it’s a choice.
Are you constantly disrespecting your child by reminding them that you took care of them? You are wrong for doing that. Don’t throw temper tantrum when you’re not getting your way, lead by example
How old are your kids Kathleen? My daughter is very passive aggressive and takes jabs when we do talk (subtle) and has made my mom her rock and basically makes me out to be a jerk when I busted my butt raising her and comforting her. So you cut yourself off from your adult children and feel free? I can understand but yet as moms I feel we have to put up with feeing hurt or less then. I like your idea better
I love this idea
I think you are on it! When your done,your done! Bravo 👏👏👏👏
That is as exact as any comparison I’ve found to my own experience. I have felt so alone. It is crazy painful. Thank you for opening up to us. Love to you!
Hi Pam. I feel very alone as well. Things started downhill after hubby died 8 yrs ago. I was still working PTime but with COVID 2020 shut downs, I chose to retire. 38 yrs in my profession. Don’t mind retirement too much at 77. But now, with a ungood hip/ knee, son & wife tell me ‘someday you will need a Medicaid nursing home so you should give US your assets so govt doesn’t take your house/ property’ Huh!! NO WAY!!
Needless to say there are problems now. We live close by each other. I LOVE my house & wooded property & nature. Not moving. Hubby and I put in OUR $$$ and efforts building our house!
I would like some help sometimes but DIL says NO ‘unless we own it’. I don’t trust them anymore. Yup. I feel alone but HAVE attorney support and some friends and am trying to stay active and purposeful. I work out daily but the joints limit me more than a year ago. No more surgery. Had 5 already.
He is partially correct in placing your assets in your childrens names. Call an Elder Law attorney. He will explain how this is done and the reason it will brr we benefit you .
Make sure you get a reputable attorney. Some attorneys have their name on the paper work to come back to them after you pass so they can get more money. Read up on what you want to do . If you put your affairs in your children’s names one can take a loan out on your home with out the rest knowing. Seriously, be careful.
Double f-d Oreo – I love that!
—Kim (author of this little piece)
Although my son is not 18 yet, he is only 16. But this year, he started treating me very mean. He is junior year in high school taking few college courses that is the trouble begin.. He was having hard time with the course. He is having hard time passing the college math class, I was just trying to help him maybe just showing him how to do a certain problem, he will call me micromanage him. annoying mom, constantly playing with my emotion. i just trying to help but i feel the math maybe too hard for him so he does not want to the homework. i was just trying to show him some problems so he will have the motivation to do the homework. i just so sad.
It’s OK to be sad when they’re not close or loving. It’s hard to stop helping our kids but it is a good thought that he is trying to be independent. If he fails then you have to let him deal with the consequences or he will not learn. Let him know that you can help him if he wants you to and walk away. Then don’t help unless he asks. *hugs*
Hi. I couldn’t have said it better myself. My son is 40 who I only see on holidays. We were extremely close until he was 10 when I met an abusive controlling psycho of a man. Of course all this didn’t come out in the beginning. I loved him to death & got trapped in the “he’ll change. I got pregnant that was totally unexpected but it being his 70 year old parents 1st grandchild, his 1st child at age 40, I really thought it would be different. I suffered from depression, anxiety & PTSD. I was a mess & terrified everyday. When my baby girl was 2, I knew I had to go, get away. Making a book of a story shorter, my husband didn’t see us much for about 2 years. Backing up, he was physically & verbally abusive to my son & he lived in fear. I couldn’t interfere or it would’ve been harder on him. I’d always worked but decided when my daughter was born I’d stay home with her. That being said gave my now husband full control. He was extremely verbally abusive to me & I too lived in fear. My daughter went to her grandparents after school where my now ex husband resided & the abuse continued but I didn’t feel I had much of a choice. I’d keep them away but ended up returning. Anyway, my daughter now 30 is staying with me & my boyfriend as she’s saving money for a house & has pretty much reminded me everyday what a pathetic human being and I ruined there lives among thousands of other horrible things. I love my kids more than life itself & honestly did the best I could at the time. My daughter is just as abusive as her father. I really want to end my relationship with my kids especially my daughter but how does a mother do that. But if I don’t, she’ll eventually kill me (mentally). I still suffer from depression, I’m in pain 24/7, I’m not a happy person at all. I watch hallmark all the time wishing I had that kind of relationship with my kids, but that will never happen. My daughter is causing issues btwn my boyfriend of 4 years cuz she’s just a horrible person to be around. He’s been so good to her but she talks mean about him all the time. Stupid stuff. She came home from work one day, stayed in the car for over an hour. He went outside to check on her & she texted me that she was mad because she was fine & he’s just being nosy. It caused an argument for days & still gets brought up. This is his house, he’s letting her live here for free, gave her money to put a down payment on a car, security deposit for an apt, whatever she needs he’s there & she has the nerve to complain to me about him. I’m 61 and miserable, stressed out & sometimes just want to crawl in a hole & die. Sorry this was so long
Hey at least u get holidays..my married son..now 40 with 3 kids..they spend with her parents and his father..I’m invited to bday parties for kids
That’s it. I’m about done..starting to detach
My married son will be 41 soon and I used to be so close to him that I could barely see fault in him. Now from well-needed therapy after he moved away and set boundaries with me, I realize he was not my answer. He is human like the rest of us and comes with many faults. I just realized now in my life that I don’t have to be a part of those behaviors anymore. I have worked hard to detach from all my kids and honestly, I feel next to nothing. I never thought that could be possible but it is. It’s a conflicted feeling of numbness and not caring to think these are my flesh and blood and I am supposed to be connected. The apathy is winning. They bring me little joy.
I could have written your post, word for word. I’m a 52 yr old mother of 3 adult children – who have managed to keep me with my jaw on the floor, dumbfounded, devastated and broken for the last 25 years. I am so very done and inches away from getting in my car and never looking back. I’ve no clue who these manipulative, ungrateful, nasty, mean young adults are anymore and don’t want anything to do with them. I more than understand what you are going through and am very sorry you’re feeling the same way as I am. Such an icky feeling…. I wish you the very best. I hope things can turn around for you!!! As for me, I’m ready to runaway from colorado!!! Leave em all here to do their thing and go find me….wherever I may be
Amen! I am so with you and just heartbroken. They were my best friends for so long and now, bc I have an opinion that ‘they think is mean’, they have cut off all ties and are just being abusive in every way possible, other than physically. And now I’m being told by my youngest of the adult abusers that ‘I lacked unconditional love, I am/was judgmental and was in general a bad mom that now causes them anxiety and stress. They are now even intentionally being hurtful by not saying happy birthday, happy anniversary etc. This causes my first: massive hurt then massive anger and just want to return the same treatment. It’s enlightening to read these posts and know that I am not alone.
I read a statistic that 40% of women over 60 are experiencing this alienation. It took ok me a solid 5 years to move through the denial, anger, bargaining and depression before I could fully accept the loss and move on to build a joyful life for myself again. This pain runs deep. Breathe and heal. And give yourselves a break – they certainly won’t!
40% seems low… You offer sound and comforting advice. :)
Thanks for sharing Beth. I could have written your post. Currently in tears because I am trying to push my 38 year old verbally abusive son out of the nest (yet again) so he has decided that when he goes, this time I will never see him again.
Sounds like my daughter who I have done nothing but babysitting her kids for free at the drop of a hat, cosigning for a car, loaning money…now she’s totally gone after being so obnoxious at 1 am. No wonder i am so pi%%$$d. The level of ungratefulness is unreal.Luckily I watched the grandkids all thru their childhood. They are teens now and daughter has dumped me. The grandkids still love me! I am working on keeping those relationships going.
I’m with you going through the wounds and same international lack of abuse, yesterday was my 67th birthday and my daughter made the worst birthday she caters to her girlfriends mom.
You are not alone.
It sounds you are well ahead of the game. If and when you ever let your children I hope it will be on your terms. It sounds harsh but ” Out of sight ,out of mind” it’s taken me 4 years but I’m done and it feels great!
Maybe you don’t want them to find you. Or maybe you just want them to love you and make you feel wanted. I can relate to your feelings as if they were my own. I’ve sadly come to realize that our adult children, especially sons, don’t really want or need us in their lives. They’ve moved on to their own tribe as they should. Mothers especially get cast aside for fear of conflict with their wives. No one really ever asks how this makes us feel in life, but we end up feeling used up, discarded, unimportant and empty. No one tells you this is what happens. So, it takes us some time to figure out that we need to walk away and find our own life now. Our old job has ended – time for a new one. One that serves you, and you only. Somewhere there is a place for us. :)
I can’t tell you how much your life resonates with mine. Its so hard at the moment. My mind plays over everything I have done for my 2 daughters and trying to understand why they seem to disregard me so. I am 60 but feel as if I am done; tired and want to run away whilst on the surface to others look as if I should be happy. What next? Jane
What next? I play a “what if” game in my mind. What if I didn’t have this person or problem in my life? What would I be doing differently? Where would I spend my energy? My time? My money? Where would I invest my love? Then do the things that bring you joy. One day at a time, the fear, shock and pain will dissipate and a beautiful, drama free life can be born. Try it!
I’m planning my departure. I’m leaving this unbearable abuse. If I don’t, the stress is going to kill me.
Feel the same good luck stay strong so many mom’s feeling hopeless and running is the only option. Sad.
OK I just read another woman’s post that she wants to run away to. And I replied to her message but now I’m thinking maybe we need to make a club and Collett the runaways or something I don’t know but I definitely think that there’s a need of a support group for us women, what do you think as I know I have beat myself over the head or way too long right away too many tears getting myself sick and sicker and I thought to myself. Wow this is just horrible to feel this way not knowing that other women were also dealing with this tragedy . But obviously there are others and I’m glad I found this group of women and I sharing and although I don’t feel as bad I still hurt, so what do we do now? WHAT DO WE DO NOW WITH OUR LIVES?!?!
I’m in. I agree with everything you said. We have a need to feel important and identify as proud women – not just mothers, wives, and grandmothers.
I agree!!! I’m thrilled to have found this group!!!
OMG…this is my story as well. Eventhough I feel bad for you but simultaneously I am cheering you on for quantifying your observations and feelings so clearly. This gives me hope. Last week 2 days before my child who is my precious one told me I am an less than a mother to them. Broke my heart. I finally decided to divorce myself from from her. Other daughter retains distance and doesn’t want me to have any relationship with her children. I am a emotionally battered woman who endured abuse from my husband. Im 68 today. Been married for 46 years. Hung on to the marriage because I didn’t want my daughters to grow up on a broken home. God will see me through I think. Not sure
I feel for you. I am also going through the same. I pray you find peace and I cheer you on.
Your story moved me to tears. I am in the same boat. Three adult sons who exclude us. I’m moving on. I can’t do any more. This is my life and I can live it well with a loving husband and without them. They broke my heart when they were teenagers and I have never trusted them again. Good luck to you. Moving might be just the ticket. I feel happier and more confident after making the decision to move on without them in my life. This is their problem and no longer mine.
For us, my husband and I, it’s so similar to grieving the death of our son. He died of a Fentanyl overdose in 2018. We went through grief and came out three years later sort of intact. Now our daughter, she’s 33, well, I think she hates us. We see her 3-4 times a year, usually to give her birthday/Christmas gifts. Or when she needs her winter tires put on her car. She stores stuff at our place. And she gaslights us and is verbally abusive. So…we’ve gone through the grieving process with her too. I simply can’t see her anymore, as it’s just too disruptive. So, if my husband dies before I do, I’m simply going to cancel his phone, which is her only contact with us, and that will be that. I never would have thought your child could end up becoming a complete stranger. But this is what she is now: someone I used to know (like the song).
Wow! I found my group. I’m so sorry this sucks so bad. My life has no meaning anymore. I quit. I am suicidal and it’s gotten so out of control. After reading comment after comment, I have come to the conclusion this is normal for moms my age. I was broken by my abusive mother who used my children to continue to abuse me and she gave their father permission and a bad example to follow. She sided with their lying, sick, pedo, father (who paid off my oldest daughter) whose father died of cancer when she was 3. Now my daughter’s have used me for years using emotional abuse to extract guilt money from me and then tell me I’m using $$ to buy my grandchildren’s love when I send birthday and Christmas gifts. My amazing son now treats me like crap just to make my DIL secure and happy. Heaven forbid I should ever expect my children to be as protective and loyal to me as I was to them their entire childhood. My oldest, the one that was abused by my younger children’s father, will throw me under the bus if she gets something out of it. And a month later call and gaslight me on how it was all her younger sister’s fault because she is so toxic. I FEEL LIKE A FAILURE! Now all three have hanged up against me and I’m the toxic one for not meeting their emotions and financial expectations. I have been accused of gaslighting and making excuses. I am so tired of the projections from abusers, and this is way worse than loosing a spouse. I am physically Ill. I am recovering from a TBI and I feel so confused at how my life got so out of control. I accept that I’m not perfect. I am the weakest, imperfect, person I know. I just don’t have any more fight left. I can’t fight battles I am fighting alone. I died on the hill I chose. I am looking forward to rebirth, and rebuilding my life! Hang in there! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!!
And I thought I was alone. I feel exactly like this! My 4 kids and their spouses and grands were close until about 3 years ago. Now I never see them. We moved across country to help one daughter and I have her on a security camera berating me for 22 minutes. She then said I was telling her children to lie, I didn’t. She was actually having them lie all the time. She then called her dad and I and said we could no longer see the kids???? We haven’t seen them in over a year. I don’t think I can ever forgive her. The oldest daughter used the opportunity to use her children. They attack my son and his wife constantly. The youngest daughter steers clear of everyone but believes her sisters. We were the family that got together all the time. I don’t understand how they can do this.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your honesty and vulnerability. I’m in a nearly identical situation and hearing you are also experiencing this made me feel less E
Ohhh dear! This cracked me up! The paragraph about children going out of their way….my father on e remarked to me that he wished he’d never had children. It was just a casual conversation we were having, and I was secretly show led at his remark. Now he’s dead and gone, and I completely understand why he said it! Unlike my father, who had 30 children, I have one. I am grateful I have him, I would have always wondered if I hadn’t had a child. But the pain I’ve felt since he was a teenager, to date ( he’s 32) makes me wonder! The 28 year hormone has helped me understand some of it though, and I am grateful. No, I am not a closet pervert for wanting my son in my life, but yes, child divorce is a good idea.
The 28 year hormone was a game changer for me!
I don’t understand what that means.
I think it was Christianne Northrop in “My Mother, Myself” who suggested that womens’ bodies absorb and carry their infant’s dna mixed in their cells from birth to around age 28. I found it fascinating that the physical connection is real and lasts longer with our bio children.
Hello, I am only 49 but am heartbroken but my 2 daughters. My oldest only wants money for me. Yells and screams at me whenever I don’t give her her way or disagrees that with her. Tells everyone how horrible I am in generally makes me feel horrible. I’ve been dealing with this for about 10 years and I can’t do it anymore with her. she is 24 and generally narcissistic and always expects me to give her everything. I’ve had to work a part-time job up until now to give her money. Once I stop giving her her way she is done with me. She’s driven a wedge between my middle child and second daughter. my second daughter is always been very short tempered and opinionated. She’s only 20 but told me to go to hell because I was never in her opinion put her first. I started standing up for myself and it is driven a wedge between us. I’ve always worked hard as a single brother to provide for them. educating myself, giving them everything I had, going years without a haircut so that they could have everything they wanted and need. I feel no attachment to my grandson and I just want peace in my life. I don’t want drama and I can’t cry anymore tears over them. it has ruined my life. people don’t believe me when I tell them that I regret ever having children and would never do it again. I felt so guilty that I don’t want to relationship with him right now.
I hear you. I just think what’s the point. With my daughter when the money stopped so did the fake love. After 4 years of estrangement and all the counselling, crying and crap I decided I’m done. All I can say is why didn’t I do it sooner. I don’t want the stress.
Perfectly said as sad as I feel reading this post for you I hold all the same feelings you posted. It is relieving to hear other mother’s feeling the same thank you for your honesty
Thank You! I am also feeling so alone. It is good to have found a group that is going through the same thing
I find it both fascinating and oddly relieving that this seems to be common for women. Not that I want anyone to hurt because I don’t but that we seem to have similar experiences yet believe that everyone else’s outcome was probably better. If the opportunity ever arises, I would love to disappear. If it weren’t for my grandchildren I would have zero regrets.
I can feel all your pain as I have the same problem with my 2 daughters.same only want money ,everything you said…I can’t even start to tell you as it’s all here from you.same treatment and abuse .the only crying I do is when I connect with them,they make me sad,they make me cry.
I am say, I understand and cry all the time. What makes it worse is if I tell any of my family about it they tell me it’s because I spoiled them. Pointing out what a bad parent I was for giving them everything. Somehow that makes it worse knowing it’s my fault they are who they are.
Mommy shame runs deep in our culture. You were one influencer in your child’s life. And only half of the genetic component in her dna. You were good enough to birth them, feed them, protect them and love them in trying times. As adults, they have the reigns to do as they will. They are who they are because of choices they made along the way. It’s not all on you.
I feel the same way
I completely agree.
My issue is my grown 43 year old son won’t get a life. I’ve thrown him out into the street and he ended up in a homeless shelter. He will not let me have a life. He stalks my building and I just wish he would die. Not really just go away and leave me alone. I have let him live in a home of mine that’s empty that I own that I was working on for a future rental. And he starts screaming about how it’s not up to his standards. He’s walking around in. Designer clothing and with the latest Tom Ford sunglasses and I phones yet loses his shit when I ask him for a little money for staying at the house. It’s not for rent but electric, water and cable. These bills are in my name. I just hate him.
God bless you. I hope he is no longer in your property. You deserve, love , kindness, and respect. I’m getting ready to divorce my 32 year old son. I’ve done so much for him, but he is cruel to me. Drug addict, manipulates and, gaslighting is common. We don’t deserve to be treated cruelly especially from family member’s. The sooner we are done with the unacceptable behavior, the sooner we will smile again. You can’t put a price on happiness. Stay away from toxic people! They don’t deserve to be in our orbit!
5 Signs of Emotional Abuse
They are Hyper-Critical or Judgmental Towards You. …They Ignore Boundaries or Invade Your Privacy. …They are Possessive and/or Controlling. …They are Manipulative. …They Often Dismiss You and Your Feelings.
For the last 6 months my youngest son, wife and 3 beautiful baby boys have been living with my husband and I. My son lost his teaching job because he wouldn’t have the jab. My DIL was close to having the third baby and when she had a caesarian I took 2 weeks off plus there were 2 weeks school holiday as well. I washed and folded for 7 people and helped look after the children and mum. This continued on up until a few weeks ago it’s been 6 months so far. I was exhausted with work on top and my house was becoming a dump most days. In the beginning we were helped by my son around the house but recently that has gone by the board. A couple of times I made comments, one was that we were all going camping and the day before we were to leave and needed to pack they decided to go for coffee and it was left to my husband and I and we also unpacked too, there’s a lot of stuff for 7 people. He accused me of having to walk around on egg shells and that I was going to kick them out which was not true. He bullied me and even had a go at the fact that I dressed too well, nothing was good about me. A couple of weeks ago the baby was christened.I nursed him put him to sleep at night often and changed his nappies, when the christening came my DIL mother always has a part in dressing the baby during the service and I became upset that I hadn’t been asked to be a part of it as well. Then the other grandmother beamed and said I can’t wait for them to move in with me, I was heart broken that none of this had been discussed properly with us.Now my husband has bandied with them and I have been told I am not allowed to speak, I have been blamed for all sorts of things and I have no place or say in my home. They use all my stuff and I live in my room away from them. They have also interfered in our marriage. I can’t tell you how much I’ve done for them and this is what happens.
Hi, do not say much. If I understand correctly they will be going to the other grandmas house to live. that’s great news! Let them go and stay positive throughout. When they finally leave you will have your sanity back. Continue to stay positive and I’m hoping over time you and your son will become closer again once they leave. Let’s see how the other grandma does. Everyone needs their own space especially you. You need to have peace for whatever years you have left in this planet. You Deserve it!! Don’t say much to your husband as well. As long as they are leaving. however if they are not leaving than maybe you go and stay with a relative or friend for a few weeks. Good luck💕Linda in NY heading toFlorida.
Yes, this! Now she will get to be the special grandma again and the other will have to deal with the daily grumpiness.
Finally i can release my pain and speak! I am 76 years old, had my daughter at age 18. it was not intentional but what was done was done. Being a young mother, my world revovled around my daughter, who is now 57. I did marry and my child had the best life, horse riding, skiing, more love than you could imagine.. My family loved her as well. Fast forward to age 21, (i can’t share what she did to upset me bc i would be labled) but to me it was big time. i was so upset and dissappointed i didn’t talk to her for a few years. then she had childr en and my sister in law chose to leave pics around, so i bent and sent a letter. i made the effort and help her over the years, financially. so we come to 2022, she now has g. kids which makes me a great grand mother. the 18 year old boy lives with my daughter and i always thought he was a nice young man until first hand i got many texts with him disrespecting me over and over. I did not take it and struck back. it’s been 2 mos and haven’t heard one apology from either my daughter or from the boy. i’m very very dissappointed, disgusted, sad and angry all at the same time. i am at the end of my life and feel i have been so good to this family and i get kicked in the teeth. i’m not really sure i want to be a part of them anymore. i have good nieces who would never disrespect me. i want to know how do i really move forward bc i can’t go backwards knowing that she and he don’t think they have done anything wrong. my daughter is sticking up for him and making him think he is right. she also has chosen to lead a low class life (sorry) and i’m tired of pretending i’m ok. any thoughts on all this thank you
Unfortunately, I can relate to this and I want to tell you. You did the best you could and your best was good enough. You can now release yourself from blame and not hold yourself accountable for the decisions of your adult kids. There were people who have come from worse families that have turned out better so their life is not your fault. Spend the rest of your life and years living for you and enjoy what you have left without the pain. I’m sorry for what you are going through.
Thank you for your words of understanding and encouragement. We could all benefit from peer support.
I agree with this. The hard part is needing another lifetime to do it. Mom’s who have given their lives to their children also thought that their children would always be a part of their lives. I know I did.
I never envisioned a life without my family, kids, grandkids, we were all so close and thats how i raised them.
I don’t understand where I’m supposed to go now or who I’m supposed to be. I don’t need to be involved in their daily life if they don’t want me to be, although I would love to be friends with my kids now that they’re adults.
I don’t understand how they just don’t care at all about me, their mom. I love them so much and always have. I moved across the country to live near them and help them with their families, leaving all of my friends behind. And now they’re choosing to move again and leaving their kids behind with the divorced parent.
So now no kids, no grandkids, no friends. I should just go crawl in a hole bcz no one would notice or care. I don’t have the money to move back where my friends are, the cost of living there is too high now and bcz I’ve been overwhelmed taking care of everyone out here I haven’t had time to stay up with my friends back home. They stopped returning my calls last year. I don’t feel like a horrible human, but I sure do get treated like one.
Dear Christy. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is heartbreaking. I hope you find the strength to push ahead and figure out how to create the best life you can… even without your children and grandchildren. Bless you. Find peace, please. Hugs, Kate.
I so can relate. I feel for each and every one of you. My situation is a little different. I divorced my husband after 28 years. My 3 girls were grown. He was an alcoholic, not abusive, but embarrassing, and I got tired of it. I remarried, divorced, now I’m living with by BF. (I’m 67).
Jumping to the point…two of my girls live in OK, one in TX (the middle one, just turned 40). She recently had a baby and I decided I should go live in TX to be near her. She did not plan for this child, wasn’t married, had a career. So she ended up getting married. But he’s very busy with his career and I was really a help when I was there.
I moved there the 1st time with my fiance (different man), we bought a house….lived there about 4 months. My old BF came back into my life (the one I’m with now) and I left my fiance at that time, and moved to NC. Well, later out of guilt, I moved back to TX to help with my daughter. That only lasted a few months, then I missed Bob (my current BF). I moved back to NC. My daughter has never forgiven me for moving. Her feelings are we aren’t married, he’s retired, if he really loved me he would move to TX with me. He has told me from the get go, he will not move to TX, just didn’t like it. (I don’t blame him…it’s hot, dusty and windy). Well, she rarely speaks to me. When she does she throws up in my face how I chose him over my daughter and my granddaughter. Also, my other 2 girls live in OK (closer to TX) and have kids as well. She makes me feel horrible, like a failure.
On another note, I have CLL. I’m to start treatment here in NC and someone has to get me there and take me home…4x the 1st month, and then monthly from then on. Can she do that? She is so very busy…they have horses, etc. I would feel like I’m such a burden. But would the fact I’m there and able to help outweigh that burden?
I’m sorry this is so jumbled. I don’t know how else to explain my situation.
I do miss being close to my kids, my grandkids, but honestly, they exhaust me. My daughter and her BF argue – well she does – she’s argumentative. He’s soft spoken, quiet. And when I watch my granddaughter, it takes a lot out of me. I know if I was there I would be watching her a lot.
But am I being selfish?
No you are not selfish. Your current bf can take you to your appointments or get a medical shuttle. Keeping distance sounds like a great idea
Thank you for allowing me to not feel guilty following a family reunion, How tragic it all ended with jealousy between 2 against 1 with their spouses weighing in on it all. I feel responsible and yet a sense of detachment. The beginnings of my divorce as stated in your video. There has always been this sense of being under the microscope, not meeting their ideal grandmother vision, what I do is not enough or correct or find fault with me because of this disillusionment. It is most uncomfortable and not healthy for anyone. While I don’t want them out of my life entirely, I think you are spot on in saying they need to mature somewhat to understand what is important or that I matter or more importantly that anything and everything I have done is from a good, loving place. Have I made mistake? You bet! But to be punished for the rest of my life, I don’t think so. I say to myself, I loved you first. It seems, for a host of reasons, they chose to forget that small fact. It is interesting how they chose to spin my involvement and how it relates to their grandchildren as I show favoritism to one family, and the list grows from there. I was astutely aware of their feelings and tried to play it cool with the grandchildren who live 5 minutes away.The reality is that it doesn’t matter what I do, it is never enough nor appropriate.
I am glad you found this article helpful. Sometimes it takes a breakdown to experience a breakthrough!
It’s now navigating the breakthrough. A part of me doesn’t want to call them and another part does. I need to be patient and hope that they learn to accept me for who I am, what I’ve been for them all these years and to become comfortable allowing this grandmother, mother and in-law to have the relationships I want with each of them. It’s been exhausting to try and please only to come up short yet again. I did send them each the same letter telling them I love them. I acknowledged their professional successes. I stayed I no longer wanted to be in the middle of their relationships with each other. That sounded better than saying drama. So now I wait.
I so appreciate your explanations as to stages in life, adjustments along the way and the pain and joy of parenting. Thank you!
You are so very welcome! Loved your letter and your limits.
I’m pleased to find another grandmother like me, who, despite great efforts, is found by the adult child to have not done grandma and motherhood Correctly nor adequately. Her father had huge un-disclosed debt when we married, and he was always dissatisfied with me and expected me to delete the debt while he did what he wanted. I’m recalling this recently and realizing this is part of my daughter’s DNA and childhood and current environment with him. So perhaps not her fault. But I am done trying. Maybe later can find strength to re-engAge. We are in therapy but people stay pretty much who they are. I’m just done worrying about it!